You know imagination rules the world and I guess that is why you are in this course. .. so, let me know something imaginative in your first reaction to this.
I imagine a world with no reason but where everyone follows their passion and imagination. What would that be like? I don't know maybe a class experiment where we have to void reason and talk about passion and everytime we bring up something we want to do with our life that involves reason over passion Dr. Gregg yells at us. Is our passion just a way of justifying our reason? Sorry, I've been stuck on these dualing concept and want this course to battle it out for me. Maybe to be discussed in Brave New World, with the importance behind the "savages".
Perhaps the problem is not that they are dueling concepts, but that the modern world has made them dueling. They have hypered Plato's duality. Where Plato believes that our passions should be in the service of reason, the modern world following the Enlightenment has elevated reason as the only means toward truth.
Perhaps some things can be known only through reason. Other things can be known only through imagination. Our passions should be properly trained so that they fuel out journey toward the true, beautiful and the good.
Unproperly trained emotions, however, would be as dangerous as hyper and unrestrained reason.
We will discuss this all considerably with the readings of Russell Kirk (and his Gothic Mind!) and Edmund Burke (with his wardrobe of the Moral Imagination,) as well John Savage and the Shakespeare that haunts him. . .
Do you think it may be a bit idealistic or even possibly utopian in the sense of living in the 'perfect world' to actually believe 'our passions should be properly trained so that they fuel out the journey toward the true, beautiful and the good'? I am probably reading it too literally. I do think we can attempt to train our passions, but I do not believe we can succeed in doing so. That is, to limit passion would be an ideal to follow and better one's self by attempting to at least train or moderate passion. When I think of passion, I immediately think of something so powerful that it is almost uncontrollable. I do not think of moderation, but rather polarized emotions like love and hate.
Now...on a side not, imagine a world in which George W. Bush could still be our President. Now, I must go off to sleep!
Alright, so I have had a while to ponder this idea after our trip. You say that unproperly trained emotions can be as dangerous as unrestrained reason and to follow up on Bobby's statement, how then should we train our emotions? I have pondered this and can't come up with a solution. If you figure this out I feel like we have solved the answer for depression, happiness, etc...
I don't believe there is a proper balance and thus I guess I agree with Plato. Where I might fall into the passion category others fall into the reason category. We all have both of these but I don't believe we can harness them.
Anyways, in respect to the moral imagination. I am a little more understanding of the concept after long thoughts on the idea. I enjoy Russell Kirk a lot more than I have in the past, but still disagree on the ideas of the diabolical imagination.
After a long hiatus, I am just getting to these posts. You both have my apology and both your messages deserve more than I can give them this evening. Plato would have us train our emotions to serve reason. They are essential servants of reason, just as the guardians are the servants of the philosopher kings. C.S. Lewis had the same basic understanding. We need to train our emotions to be good and true but not too powerful. If we allow them to rule our world, then reason loses out.
How do we train them? Well, that is what good, moral education is all about. Reading stories where the the right and true triumph. Reading stories where the virtuous and good are admirable. Watching movies where the evil get their just punishments. Learning of heroes and having family who act justly in front of us. These things all add to the growth of the moral imagination.
As for the diabolic imagination, well, I disagree with it too, but I think, Kurtis, you have something else in mind that I would not agree with. We should talk, but not tonight on a blog. . .
I imagine a world with no reason but where everyone follows their passion and imagination. What would that be like? I don't know maybe a class experiment where we have to void reason and talk about passion and everytime we bring up something we want to do with our life that involves reason over passion Dr. Gregg yells at us. Is our passion just a way of justifying our reason? Sorry, I've been stuck on these dualing concept and want this course to battle it out for me. Maybe to be discussed in Brave New World, with the importance behind the "savages".
ReplyDeletePerhaps the problem is not that they are dueling concepts, but that the modern world has made them dueling. They have hypered Plato's duality. Where Plato believes that our passions should be in the service of reason, the modern world following the Enlightenment has elevated reason as the only means toward truth.
ReplyDeletePerhaps some things can be known only through reason. Other things can be known only through imagination. Our passions should be properly trained so that they fuel out journey toward the true, beautiful and the good.
Unproperly trained emotions, however, would be as dangerous as hyper and unrestrained reason.
We will discuss this all considerably with the readings of Russell Kirk (and his Gothic Mind!) and Edmund Burke (with his wardrobe of the Moral Imagination,) as well John Savage and the Shakespeare that haunts him. . .
Hang on for the ride on this, Kurtis. . .
Dr. Gregg--
ReplyDeleteDo you think it may be a bit idealistic or even possibly utopian in the sense of living in the 'perfect world' to actually believe 'our passions should be properly trained so that they fuel out the journey toward the true, beautiful and the good'? I am probably reading it too literally. I do think we can attempt to train our passions, but I do not believe we can succeed in doing so. That is, to limit passion would be an ideal to follow and better one's self by attempting to at least train or moderate passion. When I think of passion, I immediately think of something so powerful that it is almost uncontrollable. I do not think of moderation, but rather polarized emotions like love and hate.
Now...on a side not, imagine a world in which George W. Bush could still be our President. Now, I must go off to sleep!
Alright, so I have had a while to ponder this idea after our trip. You say that unproperly trained emotions can be as dangerous as unrestrained reason and to follow up on Bobby's statement, how then should we train our emotions? I have pondered this and can't come up with a solution. If you figure this out I feel like we have solved the answer for depression, happiness, etc...
ReplyDeleteI don't believe there is a proper balance and thus I guess I agree with Plato. Where I might fall into the passion category others fall into the reason category. We all have both of these but I don't believe we can harness them.
Anyways, in respect to the moral imagination. I am a little more understanding of the concept after long thoughts on the idea. I enjoy Russell Kirk a lot more than I have in the past, but still disagree on the ideas of the diabolical imagination.
After a long hiatus, I am just getting to these posts. You both have my apology and both your messages deserve more than I can give them this evening. Plato would have us train our emotions to serve reason. They are essential servants of reason, just as the guardians are the servants of the philosopher kings. C.S. Lewis had the same basic understanding. We need to train our emotions to be good and true but not too powerful. If we allow them to rule our world, then reason loses out.
ReplyDeleteHow do we train them? Well, that is what good, moral education is all about. Reading stories where the the right and true triumph. Reading stories where the virtuous and good are admirable. Watching movies where the evil get their just punishments. Learning of heroes and having family who act justly in front of us. These things all add to the growth of the moral imagination.
As for the diabolic imagination, well, I disagree with it too, but I think, Kurtis, you have something else in mind that I would not agree with. We should talk, but not tonight on a blog. . .
And to all a good night.